Q&A with Robie H. Harris 

When it comes to sexuality education, Robie H. Harris is a pioneer.

Robie and illustrator Michael Emberley’s Family Library books—It’s Perfectly Normal, It’s So Amazing!, and It’s Not the Stork!—offer scientifically accurate, age-appropriate information that engages young people and helps them to develop healthy and positive attitudes toward sexuality. Here, Harris talks about what’s changed and what’s remained the same since the original publications of It’s Perfectly Normal fifteen years ago and It’s So Amazing! ten years ago.

NSRC: It’s Perfectly Normal and It’s So Amazing! have just been completely updated and published as anniversary editions. Has any of the content been updated from the originals?

Robie H. Harris: The biggest change in It’s Perfectly Normal was to add a whole new chapter about how you stay safe and healthy while being on the Internet. As I always do, I consulted with experts. For this chapter, I also interviewed kids who were twelve, thirteen, and fourteen about their use of the Internet. What I’ve written is that the Internet can be a good place to go to for very good information about sexuality. However, there are sites that are either inaccurate and give you misinformation—information that is not medically, scientifically, and/or psychologically correct, and, therefore, what do you do? Well, you go to trusted adults or a friend, who can help you find responsible sites. I also talk about the fact that you can end up on a site either by accident or sometimes on purpose that, to use the kids words, “creeps you out,” that upsets you, that makes you feel confused, or possibly makes you feel excited, and what do you do? So I said to these kids that I interviewed, “What do you do?” They had different answers, which I put in the book, such as: “Turn off your computer right away so you don’t have to look at it” or “Read it and go talk with a trusted friend or family member about what you just saw and how it made you feel.”

The kids I interviewed were thinking hard about this stuff. When I asked, “What would you tell your ten-year-old sibling and what would you tell your best friend?” one of the things one of the kids I interviewed said was, “You’ve got to tell kids that if they end up on a site, no matter whether they intended to go there or they got there by accident, that they didn’t do anything wrong.” That was wonderful advice, so I put it in the book. They also told me that one should never meet someone they met online in person, because you really don’t know who that person is. More wonderful advice.

Finding out about what kids are really thinking and feeling to me is the basis of writing any decent book. And in It’s So Amazing!, now there is a small mention that when you are trying to find out answers to your questions about where babies come from, and you think you want to go on the Internet to find out, first ask a trusted adult to help you find a site that is right for you.

NSRC: Do you have advice for parents who are concerned about their children’s access to the Internet?

Robie H. Harris: Our kids never did live in bubbles, even before the Internet. But now with the Internet and such easy access, that bubble has burst. I’m a parent and a grandparent now. What I try to do—and what I try to do in the books and in the writing, and Michael Emberley with his illustrations—is to give kids the honest information they need so that hopefully they can make healthy decisions, because we’re not with them every minute of the day, especially now as they are growing older when larger risks ensue.

When I talked with people about adding the chapter on Internet safety, people said things like, “Just put your computer in the living room or the dining room and never let a child have a computer in his or her room.” Well, you know, now most kids can access almost everything on their cell phones. We can’t control their lives. All we can do is try to give them some guidelines and to try to say in a clear and accurate way to them, “Here are the responsibilities and the risks,” and make the connection to sexuality.

NSRC: What was the reaction to your books when they first came out?

Robie H. Harris: Before the books were published, people would say, “You sure you want to do this? I mean you’re going to hear from people who are very opposed to this; it could hurt your career.” But I knew I wanted to do it and that it couldn’t hurt my career. If I wrote a book that wasn’t well done, that would have hurt my career. But I didn’t believe in a sloppy book. When It’s Perfectly Normal came out—and I say this with enormous modesty—it received rave reviews everywhere, much to my stunning surprise, and I’m talking about The New York Times to trade journals in the publishing world such as School Library Journal, Publisher’s Weekly, you name them. So from that point of view, it was accepted right way.

Now, fairly soon after as the book had become known, that’s when the right wing stepped in. I was not the least bit surprised. Michael and I tried to understand what was their perspective, where were they coming from, why was this so upsetting to them. Whenever I would find myself inadvertently on a radio show or television with a person who felt children and teens should not have access to my books, I was always very calm but very clear. And I always said, and I truly believe, that any family, school, library, or healthcare facility, or clergy member who wishes to have this book in their home or collection, they should have the right to do that because that choice is one of the tenets of our democracy. And to anyone who chooses not to—I respect that right. I would never say that every home, school, library, healthcare facility, or congregation has to have my book. But I do say that anyone who chooses to have it should have the right to do so. And I really believe that.

On the other hand, what I will not brook is when what is said about these books is distorted and lied about. And I do not call people “liars” because when I have heard the same distortions over and over again I actually think that some people have been fed information and statements in an organized way about our books that are not in these books, and I think some of these people actually believe what they’re saying.

But I do make sure to correct people’s inaccuracies. I don’t think that changes anybody’s mind—who’s saying that that’s what I’ve done—but for people who are listening I think it is a real disservice to spread incorrect information to kids and teens. I also say that a parent can go to the library with their child and if they don’t want their child to take out the books that I wrote, it’s fine. It’s the same way as I can go with my child and say, “Yes, you can take out that book.” That’s what a democracy is about and the librarians are heroes on the frontlines. I’ve had some children’s book librarians say to me, “Because of my religious reasons or personal reasons or cultural reasons, I would not have your book in my home, but I have it in my public library collection because in a democracy it’s the job of a public librarian to have a range of highly respected and well reviewed books in our library collections.” I think children’s book librarians are fabulous.

One of the things Michael and I’ve been told and our publisher’s been told is that not only do these books speak to kids and teens, but also that it also gives adults the language to talk to kids about sexuality. This material is difficult at times to understand, very difficult, and I find it difficult to write about.

Yes, it’s complicated to talk to one’s kids about potential risky behavior. But we know that those kids—there are some studies but not a ton; some very good stuff, though, that’s been done—those kids who have comprehensive sex education, meaning all the facts plus facts about contraception, that there are indications that they are the kids who delay having sexual intercourse. Therefore, what can that lead to: not having a baby too early and not getting infected. These are the real serious risks. We all know that, but what do we do about it? One thing we can do is educate our kids, educate them well. That’s the reason we created these books.

NSRC: How do you incorporate science into the books without making the material dry?

Robbie H. Harris: The same two cartoon characters in all three books: the bee, who finds the information very embarrassing and sometimes even gross but gets interested in it because the science is so interesting. And the bird, that kid we all know, or that we all had as a friend or some may have as children, who just can’t stop asking questions. They’re buddies in the book and they get on each other’s nerves, too. But I put them in there because they are the voices of kids and they break up the seriousness of the text because the text is serious and extraordinarily science driven. So, sure they’re books about sex, but they’re also books about human biology. And if you put the two together, sex and science, kids find it fascinating stuff, and then if you add the voices of kids, that’s how kids connect with the information.

When I was writing It’s So Amazing! somebody said to me, “Do you think fourth graders should know about different kinds of contraception?” And I said, “Well why not?” If a particular kind of contraception can stop a sperm from meeting an egg, whether it’s a hormone that keeps them from getting together, or a condom, whatever, it’s pretty interesting science. The genetics is also interesting, and so is how sperm and egg travel, and how viruses can be kept from passing from one person to another. You get the kids involved in all kinds of ways, through the science, through the stories, through the bird and the bee characters—and just the information itself, because it’s about kids, about them, it’s about what they’re going through. That’s why the title, It’s Perfectly Normal. Because most things about sex—not all, abuse, a virus gone awry, those things are not normal or healthy—but most things about sex are healthy and are normal.

NSRC: How do you and the illustrator, Michael Emberley, collaborate?

Robie H. Harris: Many authors don’t meet the illustrator of their books, but I do. I felt that was necessary since this topic was so sensitive—especially in our culture, more so than in Europe, more so than many other parts of the world. We have editions in Mongolia, where it’s given out by the government to middle school kids for free. That would never happen in this country.

I knew that this book would have to be highly illustrated in order to be fun and interesting and that it couldn’t look like a science textbook. I mean science textbooks can be terrific but it needed to be cartoony in the sense of being fun, but it needed to be accurate too. So Michael’s drawings along with my text were vetted by experts. We sat with this fabulous reproductive biologist at Harvard Medical School. And we went over the cartoons. I said to the biologist—whose specialty is sperm and how they travel—I pointed out to him, “We have sperm that talk and sperm don’t talk.” He looked at us and said, “First of all I’ve used these drawings with my MD-PhD students at Harvard Medical School. Second, the drawings do make the reader laugh, which means they will read everything you’ve written, so in that way, the cartoons help you teach. There’s a point that you’re making and that is that these sperm are rushing through, that they’re pushing against each other, that they’re millions of them, that they’re not resting, that they’re getting food, they’re getting sugar along the way because they need the energy.”

So we would sit and just talk about all of these illustrations. We also sat down with a world-class neonatologist, who looked at Michael’s drawings of fetal development, and we went over them again and again with him to make sure that even though they were cartoony, they were accurate. We did the same process with all the art and with the text. This was something that gave Michael and me the satisfaction of knowing that what we were putting out there for kids was as accurate as science could be.

NSRC: How do you approach the writing process? What is your philosophy for writing for young people?

Robie H. Harris: When I’m writing I try to put blinders on, whether I’m writing picture books for young children or I’m writing nonfiction. I’m writing for them, no matter what any adult tells me. With all of my books—and I write about the emotional lives of young children; I write about strong and powerful feelings, such as sibling rivalry and anger and, you know, love too—if I’m not honest in my writing with kids, then right away I lose my audience. I think that’s true with all our dealings with our kids. If we’re not honest, we don’t have any credibility and so they don’t listen to what we have to say. They don’t listen to everything we say anyway because they have to make their own decisions.

The other mantra is that if there’s a piece of information on sexual health or if there’s an emotion that I’m writing about for these younger picture books—if writing about it is in the best interest of the child then it goes in the books. So I do include more difficult topics in my books that are important for a child to understand such as: “I’m not the only four-year-old who has these angry and conflicting feelings about the new baby that just came home” or “I’m not the only twelve-year-old who wonders about what’s happening to my body and is it normal, is it healthy?”

I cannot tell you how many people told me to leave out certain topics in the book for the youngest children It’s Not the Stork—“Don’t talk about abuse.” Well, I don’t use the word “abuse” in that book, but I do talk about good touches and bad touches—I’m not the only person who uses that phrase—and who can touch you and who can’t and why. And why it is when you go to the doctor’s office and the doctor checks all the parts of your body it is to make sure that every part of your body is healthy, and to say this in the most matter-of-fact way. And starting with even our youngest children using the appropriate names—I mean we use the name elbow; why shouldn’t we name all the parts of the body?

NSRC: How do you feel about popular young adult books, such as the Twilight and Gossip Girls’ series?

Robie H. Harris: I have mixed feelings about them. I think if they’re out there and kids want to read them, they should read whatever they want to read. I don’t think the books themselves cause problems for teens. I think if teens have problems they have problems, the book isn’t going to turn them into falling in love with a vampire-like person, or someone who’s just destructive for you or just not great for you. So, while they’re not my favorite kind of literature, kids are reading them and I would never censor what they or anyone reads.

I think we have to look at it in a much broader context of what is it as a culture, as an art culture or a literature culture, that we’re giving to our kids. And it’s like advertising: What sells? Whatever’s exotic, bizarre, overly sexualized. It’s a business and they make a business decision, our publishers, that especially in these difficult times is based on, “Hey, is this selling? If it sells, then we’re just going to go with it.” And I think there is obviously something in these books that is very, very, very appealing to kids. Otherwise why would they buy them?

They’re a good read. Stephanie Myers, who does the Twilight series, is a terrific writer. She knows what kids will find compelling. And I don’t know if it’s so terribly different in some ways... there’s a lot of stuff in Harry Potter that’s upsetting, too. And I love Harry Potter, and I don’t even love fantasy. In a way I’d rather have kids reading any of these books than spending a lot of time online.